svengali
 Joined: 31/08/08
Places: 394
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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Let's clear once - is Wikimapia a resourse for political propaganda?
Is it appropriate to trash big scale maps with objects wich aren't only visible, but not even exist phisically. This "objects" supposed to attract peoples attention to others peoples intentions - that is 100% political propaganda. I am talking about users Warthog "Flights"
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.wikimapia.org/#lat=38.5309789&;lon=-93.6694336&z=6&l=0&m=h">www.wikimapia.org/#lat=38.530978 ... =6&l=0&m=h<!-- m -->
That is the map of the MOST of continental states - TRASHED.
"Striving for Precision" is his motto. But I see striving for attention.
Please lets discuss propaganda in Wikimapia. |
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stcraftie59
 Joined: 11/02/07
Places: 4441
Userlevel: -2 |
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ArnoutSteenhoek
Joined: 10/05/07
Places: 5091
Userlevel: -2 |
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svengali
Joined: 31/08/08
Places: 394
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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ArnoutSteenhoek why are you offering me to use map mode? Just why?
Please look at satellite map
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.wikimapia.org/beta/#lat=40.5137992&;lon=-96.3500977&z=6&l=0&m=b&v=1">www.wikimapia.org/beta/#lat=40.5 ... =0&m=b&v=1<!-- m -->
Those "Flights" are the size of counties. If that's not a trash and propaganda what is it?
stcraftie59, links to Wikipedia articles are not answers to my questions. My questions are about maps, not "encyclopedia project" (Wikipedia). See the difference?
And were those "Flights" exist physically? Just were? Counties do exist. Yes.
If I point my finger at you and say "paff!" does my "shot" exist phisically? Yes? No?
So, what are you talking about? |
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ArnoutSteenhoek
Joined: 10/05/07
Places: 5091
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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| because the map mode is the ultimate goal! |
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svengali
Joined: 31/08/08
Places: 394
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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ArnoutSteenhoek, did I ask about your goals? Yes? No?
So, what are you talking about?
Please don't tell me what to use and what is your goal. Try the topic, can you?
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stcraftie59
Joined: 11/02/07
Places: 4441
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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>>Those "Flights" are the size of counties. If that's not a trash and propaganda what is it?<<
Do counties actually exist? I have never seen borders on a satellite view.
How about States? Can you show me where a state's borders are using satellite view?
So the idea of marking something you cannot see on a map is propaganda? Then I guess counties, states, and countries are propaganda, because you cannot see them- they do not exist physically, they are imaginary places. Your logic, not mine.
I guess only islands are real. |
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ArnoutSteenhoek
Joined: 10/05/07
Places: 5091
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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I was trying to think/ get into your direction, because you were attacking a level 2 user ...
But in vain I guess... I don't like such kind of attitude on a public forum...
yolki palki! |
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svengali
Joined: 31/08/08
Places: 394
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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Wow ArnoutSteenhoek could find any arguments but vote me bad?
That's your way to discuss ideas? I laugh
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svengali
Joined: 31/08/08
Places: 394
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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>>I was trying to think/ get into your direction, because you were attacking a level 2 user ...
But in vain I guess... I don't like such kind of attitude on a public forum...
yolki palki!
What is level 2 user? Untouchauble?
Shame, shame... |
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svengali
Joined: 31/08/08
Places: 394
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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How voting for my contribution for Wikimapia can be an arguments in forum discussion?
You guys are sick... |
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stcraftie59
Joined: 11/02/07
Places: 4441
Userlevel: -2 |
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svengali
Joined: 31/08/08
Places: 394
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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stcraftie59 are we discussing my nick/personality or my intentions? Yes? No?
So, why you are offtoping? Why you are switching subjects?
I described your actions at my profile.
That's just a beginning.
I will rise the question about your actions at this forum further.
You misused your users right to vote. |
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RK77
 Joined: 27/02/07
Places: 4488
Userlevel: -2 |
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svengali
Joined: 31/08/08
Places: 394
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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GuyRoshto silos don't occupy the area of county.
RK77 were is my belingerence?
ArnoutSteenhoek wrote "because the map mode is the ultimate goal!" - offtopic and childish. Even stupid.
Now they are mad because they lost arguments.
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RK77
Joined: 27/02/07
Places: 4488
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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My solution would be to do away with the large polygons and assign grouped categories.
However, I'm unsure if the individual silos are unique enough to be allowed separate, non-generic categories? :-/ |
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Teresa
 Joined: 16/10/06
Places: 10868
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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svengali,
You might want to put your point of view across, but is there any need to use such aggressive tone? Both Arnout and Scott are perfectly within their right to vote whoever they feel is being hostile in the forum. |
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stcraftie59
Joined: 11/02/07
Places: 4441
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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>>Most, if not all of those flights have been deactivated. Meaning they do not exist as flights anymore - they are historic non-objects.<<
They do exist. You can drive right up to them. They are still interconnected, but de-activated.
They do the same thing for naval ships. They can be re-activated at any time.
>>stcraftie59 are we discussing my nick/personality or my intentions?<<
Your personality, and the way you treat others that disagree with your POV. |
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svengali
Joined: 31/08/08
Places: 394
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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RK77 the only solution is -
Keep the silos, but not "Flights". "Flights" to be deleted.
And ArnoutSteenhoek and stcraftie59 used voting for my distributions as an argument in the forum discussion!
Shame! Shame! Shame! |
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RK77
Joined: 27/02/07
Places: 4488
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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bel⋅lig⋅er⋅ent [i:n4ia4uj6]–adjective[/i:n4ia4uj6]
1. warlike; given to waging war.
2. of warlike character; aggressively hostile; bellicose: a belligerent tone.
3. waging war; engaged in war: a peace treaty between belligerent powers.
4. pertaining to war or to those engaged in war: belligerent rights.
Synonyms:
aggressive, antagonistic, ardent, at loggerheads, battling, bellicose, cantankerous, combative, contentious, fierce, fighting, flip, have a bone to pick, have chip on shoulder, have it in for, hostile, hot, hot-tempered, mean, militant, on the outs, ornery, pugnacious, quarrelsome, scrappy, truculent, warlike...
Quotes from you that [i:n4ia4uj6]could[/i:n4ia4uj6] be construed as belligerent behaviour:
[i:n4ia4uj6]"ArnoutSteenhoek why are you offering me to use map mode? Just why?"[/i:n4ia4uj6] (after being offered genuine, good-willed help)
[i:n4ia4uj6]"ArnoutSteenhoek, did I ask about your goals? Yes? No?
So, what are you talking about?
[b:n4ia4uj6]Please don't tell me what to use and what is your goal.[/b:n4ia4uj6] Try the topic, can you?"[/i:n4ia4uj6]
[i:n4ia4uj6]"How voting for my contribution for Wikimapia can be an arguments in forum discussion?
[b:n4ia4uj6]You guys are sick[/b:n4ia4uj6]..."[/i:n4ia4uj6]
-----
My opinion: your tone has been somewhat aggressive for a someone who is attempting to raise a point or make an objection.
Calm down a bit, you are not the first and certainly will not be the last with vehement opinions. Discuss your views in a polite manner so that others can approach you! |
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stcraftie59
Joined: 11/02/07
Places: 4441
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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ArnoutSteenhoek, did I ask about your goals? Yes? No?
Wow ArnoutSteenhoek could find any arguments but vote me bad?
That's your way to discuss ideas? I laugh
How voting for my contribution for Wikimapia can be an arguments in forum discussion?
You guys are sick...
If I point my finger at you and say "paff!" does my "shot" exist phisically? Yes? No?
So, what are you talking about?
****************************************
You came here to point a finger at a respected user, calling his work "propaganda". When we gave our own thoughts about the 'flights', you reacted negatively, like a spoiled child used to getting his way. That is why I gave you a 'bad' vote.
You are the one who abused the voting system. Giving a user a bad vote in retaliation is not proper. Users have been banned for that. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.wikimapia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3314&;last=1#last">www.wikimapia.org/forum/viewtopi ... ast=1#last<!-- m -->
If we go through YOUR tags, how many can we find that are not proper? Try cleaning up your own work instead of passing judgment on others. |
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Warthog
 Joined: 26/03/07
Places: 7065
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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I owe stcraftie59 for bringing this thread to my attention.
When I completed tagging the U.S. ICBM Silos, It occurred to me that the small size of the tags were would not be visible from a height. My idea with the Flights was to show how much of an area the silos were spread across. The goal was to try and show how far this country went during the Cold War that it would spread 1,000 ICBMs across the nation. The ICBMs in South Dakota were spread out over an area the size of Maryland! |
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Warthog
Joined: 26/03/07
Places: 7065
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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| The other aim was to post information in one place, rather than going to each and every silo and adding all the information that is included in a Flight tag. |
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Warthog
Joined: 26/03/07
Places: 7065
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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@ GuyRoshto
Thanks. I just turned 18 in December, but I have no intention in serving in the armed forces.
I would say that the flights do not exist in the physical sense, but they do exist. They were a part of the organization of the Minuteman ICBMs. 10 missiles and one control facility constituted a flight. |
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sodabottle
 Joined: 02/03/09
Places: 1036
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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| here we go again into the "timemapia" territory!. Unless timemapia / historical layer turns up quick, this is going to get worse. |
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sodabottle
Joined: 02/03/09
Places: 1036
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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@warthog,
I read through the tags and the related wikipedia articles. It was fascinating information. Appreciate your work! Thanks! |
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seafordian
 Joined: 24/07/07
Places: 6146
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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This argument is trivial Svengali...you're not mad still that the fatherland lost the Cold War are you? I find this information quite interesting!
There really is no other good way to display it with the current limitations. If it wasn't forced to have polygons, it wouldn't be an issue! |
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ArnoutSteenhoek
Joined: 10/05/07
Places: 5091
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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"here really is no other good way to display it with the current limitations. If it wasn't forced to have polygons, it wouldn't be an issue!"
-I think there is, by using the category [invisible]...
(Please seafordian don't pull the discussion into bigger topics....) |
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koriakine
Joined: 07/05/06
Places: 240
Wikimapia team |
| 17 years ago |
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Military bases and military test areas, old missile launching sites - they are exist, nobody argue about this. These 'areas' are specific, these 'flights' probably must not be drawn (all them covers cities, which are not military... also they are not military test sites), so this 'flighs' are imaginable. I think it's more acceptable by rules that the information about Oscar flight, Delta flight, etc., be written at COMMAND POST, Relay or LLC, see <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HICS_Lines_Connectivity2.PNG">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HICS_ ... ivity2.PNG<!-- m -->
If we will have invisible - then who will see it? |
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ArnoutSteenhoek
Joined: 10/05/07
Places: 5091
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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"If we will have invisible - then who will see it?"
Users of classic wikimapia
(I didn't invent this category...) |
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koriakine
Joined: 07/05/06
Places: 240
Wikimapia team |
| 17 years ago |
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Now we must have things organized, we don't need to show relations here, we may put a kind of image <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HICS_Lines_Connectivity2.PNG">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HICS_ ... ivity2.PNG<!-- m --> at each site. These 'flights' are imaginable.
What about making radar scanning areas in whole world? This information is valuable, why not to mark at Wikimapia? Not possible, we mark only radars (though we may add an image of radar scanning area to the place).
We must keep all things organized. |
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ArnoutSteenhoek
Joined: 10/05/07
Places: 5091
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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| I am in favour of every improvement... |
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seafordian
Joined: 24/07/07
Places: 6146
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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| AK, you might want to say something to svengali then, let him understand you find this acceptable, but needing adjustment. He is convinced it is "propaganda". I frankly don't think of it like that, and I wouldn't be opposed if someone did this exact same thing in Russia, if the information is available. It is fascinating! |
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Warthog
Joined: 26/03/07
Places: 7065
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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@ Seafordian
I did do the same thing in Russia, and at least one person got really upset
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.wikimapia.org/#lat=53.9512369&;lon=35.8703613&z=10&l=0&m=a&v=2&show=/9563945/28th-Guards-Missile-Division-ICBM-Supply-Base">www.wikimapia.org/#lat=53.951236 ... upply-Base<!-- m -->
Regarding the polygons, I just added invisible to the category option for the Oscar Flight in Missouri, and the gray background of the polygon disappeared, but the polygon was still easily identifiable when I scrolled over it. |
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koriakine
Joined: 07/05/06
Places: 240
Wikimapia team |
| 17 years ago |
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I don't see any propaganda :)
I see only that these imaginable polygons overlay cities where people live and they (people) even don't know that they are at 'Oscar Flight' :)
The information is useful. But must take appropriate place (COMMAND POST, Relay or LLC of 'flight'). |
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Warthog
Joined: 26/03/07
Places: 7065
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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It seems to me like this would be an acceptable solution. The polygons remain, but they have been altered so that they do not interfere with other things on the map. The tag "Oscar Flight" remains present until you zoom in further.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.wikimapia.org/beta/#lat=38.7674689&;lon=-93.5135651&z=11&l=0&m=w&v=1">www.wikimapia.org/beta/#lat=38.7 ... =0&m=w&v=1<!-- m --> |
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bio2935c
 Joined: 15/12/06
Places: 1426
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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I agree that this info is very interesting. And seeing the outlines on the map [u:3ermxnk6]is[/u:3ermxnk6] informative (nothing like a picture to emphasize a point).
OTOH I also dislike seeing large "objects" that, while not quite imaginary, are not exactly "visible" either. It's not like you can drive up to the edge of where the outline is drawn, and be able to see anything ... [b:3ermxnk6]any[/b:3ermxnk6]where along the perimeter. (Note that this is [u:3ermxnk6]un[/u:3ermxnk6]like counties, for example, where you might see a marker for the county line.)
One other thing that is different about these "flights" is that they are not really marking [u:3ermxnk6]one[/u:3ermxnk6] place, but rather a [u:3ermxnk6]collection[/u:3ermxnk6] of places (again, different from a county, eg). I can not think of any other tags that represent a collection of places, but perhaps my memory fails me?
How could you represent these and not lose the info? For starters you could move the info about each flight into the tag for the control center. Perhaps each silo tag could also include a link to the control center's tag, and vice versa? The existing category system, using [icbm] for example, will show where these all are, providing you know to use it, but does not provide the grouping info, nor does it have the same in-your-face impact as at present.
But perhaps the answer is that even though these [u:3ermxnk6]are[/u:3ermxnk6] mappable, that alone does not mean that they [u:3ermxnk6]should[/u:3ermxnk6] be mapped, and especially that they should be mapped [u:3ermxnk6]here[/u:3ermxnk6] (at WM). After all, there are many things in the world that [u:3ermxnk6]can[/u:3ermxnk6] be mapped and we have chosen to allow some (counties, neigbourhoods, ...) and not others (school districts, Wifi zones, ... - at least I'm not aware of any of these as approved tags). So a decision has to be made about "collection of things" tags in general, and about these in particular. |
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koriakine
Joined: 07/05/06
Places: 240
Wikimapia team |
| 17 years ago |
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Warthog: 'Invisible' category was not documented and with a high probability the places in this category may be deleted.
The solution is to copy information to the Command posts, LLC, Relays :)
bio2935c: Noone say that in the future we could not be marking Wifi Zones, Walk ways, post office districs. But all these things have are not discussed yet and their features are not ready. |
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seafordian
Joined: 24/07/07
Places: 6146
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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| Mmm US zip codes would be interesting...lot of work! |
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koriakine
Joined: 07/05/06
Places: 240
Wikimapia team |
| 17 years ago |
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| 'have are not discussed' - Sorry for my Yoda talk, mostly strange things happens when I want to sleep and edit a sentence, then forget to delete some words. |
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desu
 Joined: 01/01/07
Places: 5521
Userlevel: -2 |
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RK77
Joined: 27/02/07
Places: 4488
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
0 |
For the record, svengali's profile statement:
Attention, friends! Some group of privileged users (U2) keep BULLBAITING ME by toggling block of my account. All this started when I raised the question at the forum <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.wikimapia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4383">www.wikimapia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4383<;!-- m --> and user ArnoutSteenhoek started childish offtopic. I corrected him and then they went berserk. That's the reason my votes keep being void. Here are usernames of U2 toggling my account: 1.ArnoutSteenhoek 2. stcraftie59 3. pitr 4. RK77 5. Teresa. They are afraid of me going public about their actions and restoring my votes for their contribution in forum debates. BTW for the problem I pointed out at the forum the solution is made by the way I proposed. And I want them to know one more thing. They think the rank is the power, the userlevel is the power, in administrative privileges is the power or maybe the money is the power. They are wrong. The TRUTH IS THE POWER! Ditto! |
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pitr
Joined: 14/02/08
Places: 257
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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I have restarted limiting/ banning.
@The Lord: it is absolutely not "proper" to unlimit such a user without any notification to the community! :-( |
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svengali
Joined: 31/08/08
Places: 394
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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And for the record - my statement info is "personal".
Is it spam? Is my personal someone's concern?
For the record: the decision about "Nongeographical objects" is done.
Is it proper to discuss my personal HERE?
Is total offtopic proper in this forum?
By the way is it "proper" to interfere forum discussion with childish offtop?
For the record of "my crime":
ArnoutSteenhoek 4 days ago
because the map mode is the ultimate goal!
And how the "proper" responce should be stated if my was "bel⋅lig⋅er⋅ent"? Huh?
For the last one I would LOVE to read the answer. |
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pitr
Joined: 14/02/08
Places: 257
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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| I would suggest that you simply shut up if you do not understand what is being talked about... |
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caspermonte
 Joined: 04/06/08
Places: 1213
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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Svengali, a more detailed discussion and exchange of information can be had at
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="virtualglobetrotting.com/category/buildings/military-mi...">virtualglobetrotting.com/categor ... ile-sites/<!-- m -->
I would also hazard a guess that contributors there will have the same passion and interest in military matters and would glady share any military technical information with you.
My perception is that Wikimapia leans more on civilian places of interest. |
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RK77
Joined: 27/02/07
Places: 4488
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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| Nice suggestion caspermonte, however this kindly provided information may be deemed too off-topic by svengali's own well-publicised standards! :-( |
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