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Alibata alphabet cannot be typed in this forum
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ejae2001ph
 Joined: 26/08/07
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| 17 years ago |
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I have downloaded a font in my computer and I am able to use it in my computer on both word, notepad and some applications. Why cannot I put the characters here in this forum in wikimapia?
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alibata">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alibata<;!-- m --> |
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ceyockey
 Joined: 11/10/06
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| 17 years ago |
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| Have you checked to see if your browser is able to access the font? In other words, is it only this site that has online text input forms that cannot take this new font as input? |
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ejae2001ph
Joined: 26/08/07
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| 17 years ago |
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How would I check that?
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ceyockey
Joined: 11/10/06
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| 17 years ago |
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| If you use any other website where you type in information -- for instance, you could go to the wikimapia wiki and try to add a comment to a talk page -- or if you have a web based email account -- anything that you use a text input field in your browser for. |
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bio2935c
 Joined: 15/12/06
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| 17 years ago |
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you could try the Google translate page
click Language ... on the right from the main google.com page |
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ejae2001ph
Joined: 26/08/07
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| 17 years ago |
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I'll try. Thanks.
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ejae2001ph
Joined: 26/08/07
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| 17 years ago |
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| It would not even write in google translate. I can convert this website and others though in alibata. |
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JAT86
 Joined: 21/06/08
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| 17 years ago |
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| Interesting.. I would like to see this set of alphabets and translations in Wikimapia too. |
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eeera
 Joined: 10/12/08
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| 17 years ago |
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| Can you view the table on the Wikipedia page correctly? Can you copy/paste characters from <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alibata#Unicode">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alibata#Unicode<;!-- m --> and have them display correctly? If you can, then the problem is elsewhere. (My hunch would be that you use some unusual encoding which is not Unicode / UTF8. That's what Wikipedia uses and that's what should work here if you can just input it correctly.) |
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ejae2001ph
Joined: 26/08/07
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ceyockey
Joined: 11/10/06
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| 17 years ago |
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I'm going to go out on a limb here as I don't have PC client engineering experience...
Perhaps it has something to do with the styling used on this HTML page. The code "class = 'sections0'" applied to the table in which this input form sits. If we knew what the definition of the class 'sections0' is, that might provide some insight. This class looks like it is over-riding the body text formatting applied in the style section in the head of this page.
Another possibility is that this text entry box is supporting addition of text in the system font; have you altered your system font to alibata? |
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eeera
Joined: 10/12/08
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| 17 years ago |
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The examples are too small to really see any details. I'm guessing the second screen shot illustrates a page with English discussion forums when you select this font. To me, it just looks like foreign writing, because I cannot read your language, so I am only guessing here. But if that is so then the problem is that your font replaces English glyphs with Tagalog ones, when it should instead just add new glyphs and not mess with existing glyphs.
This is how fonts used to work in the 1980s and into the 1990s but it is not a sustainable solution because you want to be able to write English and Tagalog (and Arabic and Chinese and Burmese and Hindi and and and ...) in the same web page or document. A solution to this is Unicode. See if you can find a Unicode font you could install instead. (I believe the Wikipedia page had a couple of links.)
Again, I would suggest you experiment with copy/pasting glyphs into Wikimapia from the Unicode table on Wikipedia's page. If that works then my description of the problem would appear to be correct (regardless of my guesswork about what the screen shots are supposed to show).
(Also, could you explain what you mean by "converting" a web site?) |
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ejae2001ph
Joined: 26/08/07
Places: 404
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| 17 years ago |
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To eeera, I have tried it and it worked.
ᜇ ᜊ
The problem must lie elsewhere. I will try to work on it. |
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eeera
Joined: 10/12/08
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| 17 years ago |
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You tried what? Copying and pasting worked? Could you please elaborate, so we can try to solve this. Also, if you can confirm or correct my guesses above, that would help understand the situation. Thanks.
Further guessing: by "convert" I'm guessing you mean you explicitly tell the browser to override the web page's encoding. (In Firefox on Windows, this is View -> Character Encoding -> Arabic (Windows-1256) for example.) That's an escape hatch for pages which do not set their encoding correctly, but it's not going to work if you blindly convert (say) Latin-1 to Arabic; what you get then is basically random Arabic characters (or no change at all, if the page is in Unicode). It only works when you can correctly guess which encoding is the right one. For Wikimapia, and a growing majority of web sites, the correct encoding is Unicode (UTF-8) and you should never have to override it. |
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pitr
 Joined: 14/02/08
Places: 257
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| 17 years ago |
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| The two characters, ejae2001ph posted above ARE Unicode, eeera. |
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ejae2001ph
Joined: 26/08/07
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| 17 years ago |
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| I use Mozilla (which is the one recommended for wikimapia) and I try to add the Alibata font I downloaded to be the one that can be used but it seems it can convert or I can force the website to be "converted" not translated to alibata (since Alibata is an alphabet) but still I cannot get the browser to "write" alibata. I can copy and paste the unicode but it seems there is no Tagalog unicode that can be found on the list of Mozillas default languages. Maybe if we could get a way to add the tagalog unicode then that might do the fix. |
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pitr
Joined: 14/02/08
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| 17 years ago |
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It would be quite easy to write a little script for typing that stuff. I did this with a "quick and dirty" one:
Some basic characters: ᜀᜁᜂᜃᜄᜅᜌᜇᜈᜉᜊᜋᜌᜍᜎᜏᜐᜑ
One example with a modifier: ᜃᜓ |
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ejae2001ph
Joined: 26/08/07
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| 17 years ago |
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| Pit, Are you copy/pasting it or using the keyboard? |
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pitr
Joined: 14/02/08
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| 17 years ago |
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| I used the keyboard with a little transliteration script I wrote. But the HTML-file containing the script is not integrated into sites like WM. So of course, copying and pasting is necessary after typing. |
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eeera
Joined: 10/12/08
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| 17 years ago |
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Sorry for missing the obvious, I don't have a Tagalog font so those characters just displayed as question marks for me.
I don't know how you generally write this language; some Far East languages have their own "input methods" which you can use for entering complex characters. How do you normally write this language? Just by switching the computer's regular western 101-key (or so) keyboard to Tagalog mode? If nothing else, perhaps you could enter the characters in an editor and then copy/paste them over (although that's obviously cumbersome).
Do you think we can conclude that there is not a bug in Wikimapia, per se? |
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pitr
Joined: 14/02/08
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| 17 years ago |
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"Do you think we can conclude that there is not a bug in Wikimapia, per se?"
It is not a WM bug. The True Type Font which ejae2001ph installed is ok for displaying characters and for typing in applicatons which can use that font.
What is needed and easy to do is writing something, which creates real Unicode when typing. |
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ejae2001ph
Joined: 26/08/07
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eeera
Joined: 10/12/08
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ejae2001ph
Joined: 26/08/07
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| 17 years ago |
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| Gee, thanks for all the information eeera. How do you know all of these? |
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eeera
Joined: 10/12/08
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| 17 years ago |
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How do I know stuff? Let's just say it would not be polite to relate my age to my knowledge ...
I created a simple CGI transliterator for Tagalog (URL in private message) but it's really cumbersome to use. A better solution would be to get something which runs in the browser. I looked into what it would take but at least for Firefox, its security model practically requires you to write an extension, which is a lot of work for something which I already implemented as basically three lines of Perl /-: (In IE it seems it might be possible to create a simple bookmarklet but I don't have, or desire to obtain, a Microsoft OS, so that would be for somebody else to explore further.)
There are already transliteration extensions for Firefox; <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.benya.com/transliterator/">www.benya.com/transliterator/<;!-- m --> looks like it would not be hard to add support for Alibata. There is also the Google Transliteration Extension <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://addons.mozilla.org/fi/firefox/addon/8960">https://addons.mozilla.org/fi/firefox/addon/8960<!-- m --> which certainly gets name recognition, but I would bet my money on the Benya one first as it seems very easy to customize. |
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eeera
Joined: 10/12/08
Places: 153
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| 17 years ago |
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Hey, I just noticed I can use HTML entity codes here. So to get ᜓ I type ᜓ in the input textarea. (Editing the posting will wreck this, though.)
I guess that would work in the map interface too, although that would be several orders of magnitude more cumbersome even than a command-line transliteration script. (Pitr: what were you using, is that something you could share?) |
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pitr
Joined: 14/02/08
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| 17 years ago |
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"Pitr: what were you using, is that something you could share?"
A transliteration script written in Javascript (vowel/ syllable input with Latin characters, output in Unicode). Of course I would share it but it is not complete. |
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ejae2001ph
Joined: 26/08/07
Places: 404
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| 17 years ago |
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| As i have browsed through the transliterator site. it seems that any user can add a different alphabet which is not defaultly included in the transliterator. Is that correct? |
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eeera
Joined: 10/12/08
Places: 153
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| 17 years ago |
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| That's my interpretation, yes. You'd need a modicum of technical savvy but it should not be hard. The table for Baybayin would not be very large. However, you'd have to enter "bu" and "bi" separately from "ba", so the table would be three times larger than optimal. Again, it's not hard to generate the data from a more compact representation if that seems a bit frustrating. |
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eeera
Joined: 10/12/08
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| 17 years ago |
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If the following table looks correct then you should simply be able to copy & paste it in as per the instructions for how to add a new mapping. This is just off the cuff, and might contain silly errors; I'm not able to read the alphabet even if I would have the necessary font installed.
(You will need to remove the line breaks; I had to put some in for legibility reasons.)
[["a","ᜀ"],["ba","ᜊ"],["ka","ᜃ"],["da","ᜇ"],["ga","ᜄ"],
["ha","ᜑ"],["la","ᜎ"],["ma","ᜋ"],["na","ᜈ"],["nga","ᜅ"],
["pa","ᜉ"],["sa","ᜐ"],["ta","ᜆ"],["wa","ᜏ"],["ya","ᜌ"],
["i","ᜁ"],["bi","ᜊᜒ"],["ki","ᜃᜒ"],["di","ᜇᜒ"],["gi","ᜄᜒ"],
["hi","ᜑᜒ"],["li","ᜎᜒ"],["mi","ᜋᜒ"],["ni","ᜈᜒ"],["ngi","ᜅᜒ"],
["pi","ᜉᜒ"],["si","ᜐᜒ"],["ti","ᜆᜒ"],["wi","ᜏᜒ"],["yi","ᜌᜒ"],
["u","ᜂ"],["bu","ᜊᜓ"],["ku","ᜃᜓ"],["du","ᜇᜓ"],["gu","ᜄᜓ"],
["hu","ᜑᜓ"],["lu","ᜎᜓ"],["mu","ᜋᜓ"],["nu","ᜈᜓ"],["ngu","ᜅᜓ"],
["pu","ᜉᜓ"],["su","ᜐᜓ"],["tu","ᜆᜓ"],["wu","ᜏᜓ"],["yu","ᜌᜓ"],
["b","ᜊ᜔"],["k","ᜃ᜔"],["d","ᜇ᜔"],["g","ᜄ᜔"],
["h","ᜑ᜔"],["l","ᜎ᜔"],["m","ᜋ᜔"],["n","ᜈ᜔"],["ng","ᜅ᜔"],
["p","ᜉ᜔"],["s","ᜐ᜔"],["t","ᜆ᜔"],["w","ᜏ᜔"],["y","ᜌ᜔"]] |
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eeera
Joined: 10/12/08
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| 17 years ago |
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You might also want to add the following if you want "e" and "o" to work. You could make similar additions for ra/ri/ru/r/re/ro etc.
["e","ᜁ"],["be","ᜊᜒ"],["ke","ᜃᜒ"],["de","ᜇᜒ"],["ge","ᜄᜒ"],
["he","ᜑᜒ"],["le","ᜎᜒ"],["me","ᜋᜒ"],["ne","ᜈᜒ"],["nge","ᜅᜒ"],
["pe","ᜉᜒ"],["se","ᜐᜒ"],["te","ᜆᜒ"],["we","ᜏᜒ"],["ye","ᜌᜒ"],
["o","ᜂ"],["bo","ᜊᜓ"],["ko","ᜃᜓ"],["do","ᜇᜓ"],["go","ᜄᜓ"],
["ho","ᜑᜓ"],["lo","ᜎᜓ"],["mo","ᜋᜓ"],["no","ᜈᜓ"],["ngo","ᜅᜓ"],
["po","ᜉᜓ"],["so","ᜐᜓ"],["to","ᜆᜓ"],["wo","ᜏᜓ"],["yo","ᜌᜓ"] |
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ejae2001ph
Joined: 26/08/07
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| 17 years ago |
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| Based on Alibata, be/bi and bo/bu are of the same character. Same is through with the others. Is this problem only unique in Alibata. Then why is Cyrillic, Arabic, and Greek can be viewed in Wikimapia by default whereas Chinese, Japanese and Korean needs a font installation much like Alibata and Amharic. |
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pitr
Joined: 14/02/08
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| 17 years ago |
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It depends on your OS and also on your installation. Some fonts are automatically installed upon setting up the OS, others are not.
Just recently, one of my god children bought a new notebook (Windows Vista pre-installed). Her boyfriend replaced the OS with Linux without caring about support of languages/ scripts. She was positively surprised not having to install a font for reading Amharic. |
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eeera
Joined: 10/12/08
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| 17 years ago |
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Yes, they translate to the same string, but it can be a convenience to be able to type either "bebo" or "bibu" and get the same result.
All scripts basically require you to have a font with the necessary glyphs installed. Windows is shipped with some international scripts, depending on where you buy it; I guess the situation for MacOS X is similar. The fonts required for CJKV scripts are very big and complex, so it makes sense to make them optional, whereas Arabic, Cyrillic and Greek are rather small and so don't add a lot of dead weight even if you never use them (and in addition, there is some overlap between Latin, Greek, and Cyrillic glyphs). I guess they figure the cost/benefit of Amharic and Alibata is below the line, although I suppose you could include them in the default set (but then there are several dozen others which would also be relatively small, and probably have a larger computer-literate population than Alibata -- a large number of Indic scripts, for starters).
Can you confirm whether the tables I posted look correct?
Note that if you want to use the e+o part, it would need to be pasted somewhere in the middle; if you look closely, the first and last things in the list need to be double [[ and ]]. |
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eeera
Joined: 10/12/08
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| 17 years ago |
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| Also if you look at the other transliterations on the Transliterator web site, you will see that Alibata is certainly not the only language with this problem. Typically, though, it would be useful if you are stranded in a foreign country where your employer is not able to supply you with a proper keyboard for your own language, or there simply isn't one you can buy. It's also useful for language students who probably don't want to switch to a new keyboard layout just to be able to type the language they are trying to learn. Anyway, maybe there is a more straightforward solution available but your local computer-support community would be more likely to know about what works and is popular in your area. |
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eeera
Joined: 10/12/08
Places: 153
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