koriakine
 Joined: 07/05/06
Places: 240
Wikimapia team |
| 17 years ago |
0   |
We released the new version of Wikimapia. It is the next step in Wikimapia development, to make map more readable for users. Some months after Wikimapia launch we faced rectangles mess problem in populated areas. Old Wikimapia with rectangles is understandable by geeks, but totally unreadable by usual visitors, we found this out by several usability tests.
To give a visual presentation of changes here’s an image of Old Wikimapia:
[img:1v8vhz55]http://wikimapia.org/img/news/1.png[/img:1v8vhz55]
The New Wikimapia presents this in a better way:
[img:1v8vhz55]http://wikimapia.org/img/news/2.png[/img:1v8vhz55]
[img:1v8vhz55]http://wikimapia.org/img/news/3.png[/img:1v8vhz55]
Link to this place: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="wikimapia.org/#lat=54.7032384&;lon=25.3137016&z=16&l=0&m=b">wikimapia.org/#lat=54.7032384&;lo ... 16&l=0&m=b<!-- m -->
The Old Wikimapia is available on the "Map type" menu as a Classic Wikimapia option.
Let's describe the whole world! |
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Wikisoriano
Joined: 16/06/08
Places: 1425
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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1º) Old Wikimapia with rectangles is understandable by geeks.
I am NOT a geek, and i think that a lot of users are not geeks and they like rectangles.
2º)The Old Wikimapia is available on the "Map type" menu as a Classic Wikimapia option.
Wrong!, Old wikimapia is not available, only you can see "dumbed down" Beta.
3º)I don´t know what is the future of this problems:
- ¿what will be happen with hundred of places with big polygons?, for example, seas, provinces, gulfs, etc....;, you can not see them in Beta
-Satellite + old places should be the main version, because people can create thousands of places that have been created, but they don´t have any polygon.... and i think that new users don´t know that there is an option called "satellite + old places"
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bari
 Joined: 13/10/08
Places: 4288
Userlevel: -2 |
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Teresa
 Joined: 16/10/06
Places: 10868
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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I am not a geek, I am not that fond of 'big' rectangle either, but at least in that version we can do something about them.
It is not really rectangles we want, but since the rectangle goes hand in hand with the old Classic, we have to put up with the rectangles in order to retain the old classic but working on the rectangle to make it acceptable.
I agree with Wikisoriano that the classic in Beta is a dump down version which we find it frustrating to use. Since it gives us none of the previous functions.
Currently there are so many bugs and holes in Beta (almost daily we encounter bugs), it does not give us the confidence to use like the old classic does. |
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allgaiar
Joined: 29/07/07
Places: 16056
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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It´s a pity, to work with the "New Wikmapia"
Very slow, a user have to click 6 or seven times, to set a tag (before it was 2 steps!)
I have decided, to leave all the trash and garbage, because i don´t waste my time! :-( |
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allgaiar
Joined: 29/07/07
Places: 16056
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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After more than 10,000 creations i don´t like to be adressed as a geek. And there is no difference in cluttering the map: Oversized rectangles or oversized polygons.
Koriakine, please have a look to India... :-( |
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koriakine
Joined: 07/05/06
Places: 240
Wikimapia team |
| 17 years ago |
0 |
Thanks for the reports, the issues with new Wikimapia will be solved. It is not like this version will stay forever unchanged, we see the problems and fixing them, to make Wikimapia more simple and useful.
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Specious
 Joined: 11/07/08
Places: 2893
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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@ koriakine:
There is no doubt that you will soon improve this version. In the meantime, is there any way you can:
1) Make the Classic version in the menu *exactly* the same as the old Classic?
2) Let us see Google roads over the Wikimapia content (at least when not in edit mode)?
Please, we are suffering! |
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shoa
 Joined: 19/02/08
Places: 681
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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I'm not a geek either. I'm just a regular fellow.
It is not the rectangles what I'm seeking for, instead it's the
simplicity of the classic (easy to work with). In fact, I do use
the beta version a lot, but I find my self falling back to the
classic not for its beauty, but for its functionality, i.e, easy
to work with.
>> Old Wikimapia with rectangles is understandable by geeks, but
totally unreadable by usual visitors, we found this out by several
usability tests.<<
If this is the case, then let original classic version to be used by
the "geeks" (regular users) only, and the other, to the usual
visitors.
Note, It's has gotten extremely difficult to do anything at all
in the new system.
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Ringfort
 Joined: 03/05/09
Places: 215
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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One thing I have noticed is that it can be quite difficult to see the outline of some very small (usually my lovely house) tags in cities. For all their problems, at least it was possible to see the rectangles.
Pass me the geek pie... |
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Specious
Joined: 11/07/08
Places: 2893
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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I agree with allgaiar, that the new system takes too many clicks. Adding categories is especially frustrating! It's very hard to be a power user with the new Wikimapia.
@ Ringfort: π |
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aeichener
Joined: 07/02/09
Places: 151
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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| The "new" (Beta) version is much inferior in terms of usability, functionality and convenience. Many old entries are lacking totally or are hidden, polygons have been changed automatically and cannot be re-adapted. Much previous and painstaking work by users has simply been lost in the new trial version. |
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renkessler
Joined: 30/12/07
Places: 2960
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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A good software implementation includes not only the developer's ideas, but incorporates the needs and desires of those that are going to use it. That is the "usability" factor. This is done through 1) focus groups and 2) beta versions. We got the beta version but not the focus groups. When a developer discovers that the beta does not meet the needs of the users, he alters it or abandons it. That did not happen to this project.
The team needs to realize that the new WM does not meet the needs of the users and go back to the drawing board. Abandon it or listen to what the users are saying and make the necessary changes.
They have a vision, but it is not necessarily the right vision. |
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DrCSKaushik
 Joined: 02/01/08
Places: 379
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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| Well said renkessler. |
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Mapindentifier
 Joined: 24/04/09
Places: 286
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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This is a new development. Congrats to Koriakine and the rest of WM team...
My only concern here is the loading of the maps and streets...
eventually I will revert back to old version from time to time after I will upgrade my pc with new memory module (around 4GB) because mine is 2GB and normally, the loading of the new map version took almost 60% of the memory of my pc... and when I edit some roads, loading pumps high at around 83%... and sometimes it hanged up...
I hope these issue on memory usage should be resolved since some of us are not using too much memory allocation on their pc's... and sometimes the C++ 2008 software installed in our computers also hanged up if the loading is unsuccessful...
Also, and lastly, I asked the developer team to already mandate the guest users to register in WM because I believe some of us will have to worry how to find those too small inappropriate tags made by some vandal users... Eventually with the new feature, I believe it is more easy to look after those vandals since the place tagged is already present and we will just do the appropriate way...
In the end, hail to all of you... There is room for some changes... Hear the issues... Resolve it right away! |
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sodabottle
 Joined: 02/03/09
Places: 1036
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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AK,
>>-Satellite + old places should be the main version, because people can create thousands of places that have been created, but they don´t have any polygon
AK said there would be a work around fix for this and i think it is in. I tried adding a polygon over an existing rectangle (when in satellite view). When i hit save, i got a message that "older tag exists" or something to the effect. Can someone else confirm?
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sodabottle
Joined: 02/03/09
Places: 1036
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
0 |
| oops the above message was addressed to wikisoriano |
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Brighante
 Joined: 18/03/08
Places: 124
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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| I logged in today after two days coz i dont feel like working with wikimpaia any more coz its very very hard to see,create places in this newer version coz some places in old wikimapia are not showin in beta.Moreover manually selecting wikimapia classic is still not good as its giving different problems while doing that.and very very very slower.So nobody can get himself break his computer either break it or leave the site .i also feel da same.I think lot of user are gonna leave wikimapia due to this.Lets see what Happens:-) |
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davechiew
Joined: 19/11/08
Places: 10502
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
0 |
| Sorry, I was too busy cleaning up to notice. You mean there's been a change in Wikimapia? How come no one told me? :-) |
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1231231
Joined: 23/11/07
Places: 8
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
0 |
| Is it possible to measure area of a polygon in new Wikimapia? |
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laileen
 Joined: 10/09/08
Places: 962
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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Reading from a lot of entries (discussion, complaints) in this forum the "rectangle" is a big issue. For users and contributors, they need an edit menu for this to adjust rectangles so it is not cluttering in the map. Which I can understand because if I want for example tagging a place or building, the neighboring place has a HUGE rectangle that occupied already the place I want to tag.
@koriakine if the WM Team is concerned of the visual presentation and bothered by the existence of this rectangles, why was it not removed in the new implemented WM Beta? |
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eamaral
Joined: 31/01/08
Places: 7994
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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[i:1fcpa2cj]AK said there would be a work around fix for this and i think it is in. I tried adding a polygon over an existing rectangle (when in satellite view). When i hit save, i got a message that "older tag exists" or something to the effect. Can someone else confirm?[/i:1fcpa2cj]
There has always been such warning. I can't say if it's more restrictive now... But t's very far from good... You just need to see how many tags are still being duplicated because of this dam standard view, without such places (not even when you try to add a place, you are not told you should use the view with all places).
Users' brains are the best tool to identify duplicates. You just need to show them all tags, and they can easily say "it's already on the map, so i don't need to add another tag". Instead of using such wonderful (and already available) tool, AK prefers to create his less effective one.
The way it is now, it's very bad, because you lose the polygon you draw, no matter the detection tool is correct or wrong on its guessing about what you are trying to add (i've lost some work because of this).
Unfortunatelly, it reaches some time you get tired of asking simple things, like "show all places that are tagged" (isn't that a bit obvious?), and not be listened. Then it came the day that even what you had was taken from your hands... Don't be surprised in seeing great users going... |
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stcraftie59
 Joined: 11/02/07
Places: 4441
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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I am a Wikimapia geek. Been so for years. Wikimapia hs changed, not for the good. This new version sucks.
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sodabottle
Joined: 02/03/09
Places: 1036
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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>>There has always been such warning.
Oh Ok, I thought this was something new. I havent tried that before.
>>Users' brains are the best tool to identify duplicates. You just need to show them all tags, and they can easily say "it's already on the map, so i don't need to add another tag". Instead of using such wonderful (and already available) tool, AK prefers to create his less effective one.
Agree completely |
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ivanatora
 Joined: 24/06/08
Places: 1020
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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Why the MAP VIEW is the default view? It is not right way. It shows too small portion of available visual information. When you open an wild area you probably see nothing, but a tag or two. Maybe no roads. Maybe no rivers. DEFINATELY NO MOUNTAINS.
Yesterday my dad wanted to find our village in the map and I told him "use Wikimapia, you can open that site at that address...". He opened it and saw only several ugly colored polygons. The default MAP VIEW. Lots of people are used to Google Earth images, and it is A MISTAKE to try to force them to use some new representation of the universe.
The MAP VIEW is a fun one, but it is definately not the view that can give the most information. It SHOULD NOT be a default view, especially for new users. |
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Specious
Joined: 11/07/08
Places: 2893
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
0 |
| Honestly, until the situation improves, I can't even recommend Wikimapia to anyone. Without roads, no one will understand it. When I meet people who are new in town, I generally tell them about Wikimapia. Today I met someone who just moved here and I didn't even mention it. I'm still creating tags for the future, but right now the whole project is basically useless. |
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Wikisoriano
Joined: 16/06/08
Places: 1425
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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| I have the same problem as Specious, Nowadays, i can´t recomend wikimapia to anyone; there are a lot of bugs, and i feel that New wikimapia is not very "attractive" and too much complicated for old and new users, what a pity! |
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Brighante
Joined: 18/03/08
Places: 124
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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| As far as my expereince is concerned not the wikimpaia experience only but the general common sense,i dont see any kind of response from the ADMIN ALREXANDRE regarding giving back the older wikimapia classic with all the old classical features.so, i personally feel that now we are not gonna get the older good wikimapia back.its just all invain what we discussed in bug reports and this NEWS thread.So all i can say is being ul1,this is very surprizing and shock for ul2s more than that of Ul1 coz they hve been using it for a long time and given their good work and dedication to wikimapia and now they see everythig going out of their hands is very SAD and DISAPPOINTMENT. |
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davechiew
Joined: 19/11/08
Places: 10502
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
0 |
What it means is that Admin has plans for further advancing Beta, and the Classic is getting in the way and therefore has to go. As compromise, certain features of Classic were ported over to Beta. If these features retained their full functionality, then then would not be this level of discontent.
Maybe AK and his team should make the rectangle tool functional in Beta and there will be 99% less complaints. |
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eyecam1
 Joined: 20/05/09
Places: 1024
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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Development !!! Are you serious Koriakine???
What you call new version is slow, time consuming, blind (old tags are not seen) & cripple.
Try to listen to the users! No one is satisfied, you think all are geeks!!??.
You can never neglect the ideas & needs of the users.
Improve your BETA according to the opinions of users before you talk about development.
Or you better describe the whole world alone. |
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Brighante
Joined: 18/03/08
Places: 124
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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it seems that all the ul2s have stopped writing forums,Neither i see any Ul2 giving response.
So i think Ul1s should also go for a protest of non-writing forums.So this should be taken into consideration: |
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MHibbs
Joined: 20/10/06
Places: 2626
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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I'm a total wikimapia geek, I'll admit it. And there are others out there who geek or not, do 95% of the quality work on this site. After totally ignoring the consensus of quality users in this thread:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="wikimapia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4491&;goto=94879#goto94879">wikimapia.org/forum/viewtopic.ph ... #goto94879<!-- m -->
We are now stuck with the new version, which is slower, more difficult to work with, MUCH more difficult to properly catergorize and simply looks awful in the majority of places. |
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forrestgumprock
 Joined: 18/08/07
Places: 455
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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| Lol I think its funny he has 13 thumb down on his first post......it doesn't even matter to me anymore I don't make stuff anymore so eh its boring |
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Jabir99
 Joined: 20/12/07
Places: 395
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
0 |
No matter how hard Sasha tries, the ungrateful people are always complaining.
Complaining, complaining, complaining... is that all you can do?
Koriakine never means to upset any of you ... you ... users... but you are always
trying to tell him how worthless his efforts are, how wrong his judgment is, how
bad he is.
All I can say is: why don't you guys give Koriakine a break - maybe for a change? |
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dawtcalm
 Joined: 27/11/06
Places: 1454
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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There's a difference between being ungrateful and identifying a mistake, and suggesting a very simple request to have something back that is already available...
People are explaining the problems with the change as well as the methods the developers use to apply changes: The dev's have a wealth of user feedback available on the forums, yet they refuse to acknowledge them. They do not communicate with the users, and the users are fed up...
In the software world that is a recipe for failure... |
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basantsri
 Joined: 22/06/08
Places: 211
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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To Summarize: Full of bugs, takes every few changes restarting the application to bring it back to life. I think the Classic should have been continued till at least bugs affecting the contribution seriously were resolved. Majority of users are unhappy and there are doubts that how fast the faults can be fixed.
Very slow and unpleasant to work now.
-basantsri |
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Specious
Joined: 11/07/08
Places: 2893
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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Wikimapia Classic got pulled overnight. Surely, now that it's clear we still need it, could it please come back overnight? :)
Then we can have a peaceful discussion without users leaving! |
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sodabottle
Joined: 02/03/09
Places: 1036
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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>>Complaining, complaining, complaining... is that all you can do?
No, it is not all that we do. The user community in large has been
1) Consistently pointing out Beta is in no shape for general release
2) Finding bugs and pointing out issues that would arise from general release
3) Asking for classic to be kept on till Beta's bugs are worked out. (A software should have one stable version standing till the next one's bugs are worked out)
4) Patiently and repeatedly asking to stop treating us like three year olds by trying to pass off a "Beta lite with triangles" as "Classic".
==
>> why don't you guys give Koriakine a break - maybe for a change?
All these problems could have been simply avoided by leaving classic as a secondary link, while beta's bugs are worked out. And we have been repeatedly making this point. AK thinks he can wait the storm out by keeping mum and hoping a)complaining users will eventually come around b) New users will replace the ones who drop out.
I have not stop my work in wikimapia but everytime beta freezes on me and i have to close and reopen another tag, i am inching towards dropping this for good.
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pitr
Joined: 14/02/08
Places: 257
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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"Obviously, AK has no intention of making Classic available to the masses."
Right. The masses are not able to use it:
"Old Wikimapia with rectangles is understandable by geeks, but totally unreadable by usual visitors, we found this out by several usability tests."
How come that (stupid or less stupid) vandals and "My Sweet Home" contributors have constantly been able to pollute WM? If the recent changes are intended to reduce vandalism and garbage: ok. But that certainly is NOT, what The Lord has in mind.
There is only one reasonable solution: "eternal" (and unlimited) access to the real WM "classic". Everything else is (sorry!) bullshit. |
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maninter
Joined: 05/01/07
Places: 87
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
0 |
To Admin:
<Complain>
Is it possible to mix up this 2 function? Google Hybrid + Wikimapia Classic
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.wikimapia.org/#lat=3.1513573&;lon=101.651001&z=15&l=0&m=s">www.wikimapia.org/#lat=3.1513573 ... 15&l=0&m=s<!-- m -->
this is due to the cloud, we cant see anything
The reason why I need a Google Hybrid + Wikimapia Classic
it is because at the old version, this feature is available but in this Beta version it's not.
With Google Hybrid + Wikimapia Classic, no matter how worst is the condition, everyone still can get the map and building info.
1) If you are choosing satellite, partly info will appear only
2) If you are choosing satellite + old places, a bit more info will appear only
3) If you are choosing Google map, just a map, you cant get any building info
4) If you are choosing Google hybrid, you can get satellite view without any building info
5) If you are choosing Google satellite, just a satellite view
6) If you are choosing Google terrain, another type of map
7) If you are choosing Wikimapia Classic, you can get all info which is marked but without the map
Therefore I wish Admin can do something for it. I'm really uncomfortable with the new version after 4years of old version. Thx |
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PA3DSS
Joined: 14/03/08
Places: 6802
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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| It should be beta as before, fix it first, it seems like microsoft |
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PA3DSS
Joined: 14/03/08
Places: 6802
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
0 |
| lots of classic tags are gone....... |
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ceyockey
 Joined: 11/10/06
Places: 942
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
0 |
koriakine said - "Old Wikimapia with rectangles is understandable by geeks, but totally unreadable by usual visitors, we found this out by several usability tests."
We are all Wikimapia geeks compared to a person who visits here for the first time from a GeoHack link or an embedded map. Being geeky in this sense just means that you are knowledgeable about Wikimapia and skillful in its use.
I would certainly like a more linear and transparent revision path and change control process for Wikimapia, but resource constraints can easily necessitate tossing the software development rule book in the dust bin.
Keeping in mind usability for naive visitors is essential as a development focus if the goal is to effectively compete (even if limited to a niche use case) with the established players in the online map rendering arena, such as google, mapquest and yahoo. |
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Specious
Joined: 11/07/08
Places: 2893
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
0 |
Quick fix for the Hotel Booking! In Firefox, type this URL:
javascript:document.getElementById('hotbok').innerHTML='';alert('Poof!');
Hint: Save that as a bookmark :) |
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homosapiens
 Joined: 10/06/08
Places: 213
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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So my dear fellows, here's the bottomline from the Lord---
let the 'geeks' resign.....
and let the 'usual visitors' take over!!
by the way, can anyone explain who are these "usual visitors" of AK?
and what is their 'contribution' here??
and why do they come here???
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eyecam1
Joined: 20/05/09
Places: 1024
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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Yes homosapiens, the answer to your first question is:
- Usual visitors are unregistered users who can create rubbish, spam & vandalize without fear of retaliation.
- They can do, say & destroy as they wish without being stopped, limited or banned.
- They can fill WM with garbage to let the garbage men (registered users) clean up after them.
- And last they are the spoiled guests of AK.
I hope this also answer your other 2 questions.
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davechiew
Joined: 19/11/08
Places: 10502
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
0 |
There is now also a new breed. They are the newly registered users who don't bother to read instructions and they continue adding rubbish just as they were doing before they registered. This group is fast increasing and they are adding every Tom,Dick & Harry's house.
I'm running out of coffee ... .
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renkessler
Joined: 30/12/07
Places: 2960
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
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Dave;
This is not a new breed. They have been around a long time. The numbers are increasing due to WM gaining notice. |
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Brighante
Joined: 18/03/08
Places: 124
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
0 |
@Davechiew
Well said.but no problem i hve got some coffee left which we can have together but no at wikimapia but at any other interesting place bcoze wikimapia is no more interesting for us now. |
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sodabottle
Joined: 02/03/09
Places: 1036
Userlevel: -2 |
| 17 years ago |
0 |
>>There is now also a new breed. They are the newly registered users who don't bother to read instructions and they continue adding rubbish just as they were doing before they registered. This group is fast increasing and they are adding every Tom,Dick & Harry's house.
And they dont listen to PMs. I send atleast four or five PMs every day to such users in india to go read the rules before posting. I get either one of the following replies
1) No reply and keep on adding places (homes of others)
2) Rude replies to mind my own business.
3) Very rarely, thanks for pointing out stuff and deletion of their wrongly marked places. |
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